World War II - When Lions Roared (1994 NBC Miniseries)

World War II - When Lions Roared (1994) Starring: Michael Caine, Bob Hoskins, John Lithgow http://www.amazon.com/World-War-II-Lions-Roared/dp/B000KJTG0G/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1215161088&sr=8-1 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108956/ AMAZON REVIEW "This is great entertainment and great historical drama. It is based upon actual cables between Washington, London, and Moscow during the Second World War, and deals almost exclusively with the relationship between the leaders of these countries throughout the war. Franklin Roosevelt (played by John Lithgow), Winston Churchill (Bob Hoskins) and Josef Stalin (Michael Caine) spring to life as real but imperfect people who nevertheless are great leaders fighting a great war. Incidentally, the film focuses almost solely on the European war--the war against Japan is largely in the background, which has the effect of causing the film to somewhat diminish America's contribution to the war. This is a minor quibble, however. This is a wonderful film. The miniseries does a wonderful job of juxtaposing dialog between the great war leaders with actual footage of combat scenes from the war. It tells a great story in a highly entertaining fashion, and does a splendid job of showing the viewer some of the problems, controversies, and arguments between the allied powers while the three leaders struggled to hold together the greatest coalition of nations in history. The striking thing about this film is that it never deviates from its theme--to tell the story of the allied war leaders and the problems they faced. No bogus "love interest" material--this is historical drama with emphasis on the "historical." In fact, only a few actors in this film even have speaking parts--Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin, Molotov, and Henry Hopkins are the only ones I can recall. The acting is very fine. I thought Lithgow did a great job as Roosevelt--although he looks and speaks differently than FDR did, he nevertheless pulled it off very well in my opinion. Bob Hoskins was quite literally perfect as Churchill, and as far as I am concerned is virtually indistinguishable from him. Michael Caine was taller and better-looking than Stalin ever was, but nevertheless did a great job in the role. Wonderful historical drama that will draw and retain the interest of viewers interested in World War 2."

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rgratt4 (2008-07-05)

rambam, you have some truly exceptional files here on this site. I especially appreciate the balance between viewpoints that you offer, for example offering both Clarke and General Tommy Franks' view on the war on terror.
I would also like to ask you: are there are any other books that you would recommend? I am a student thinking of majoring in a subject such as politics or history, and always looking for more to read.

 rambam1776 (2008-07-05)

That?s a very broad question, and I don?t know a lot about your current level of education or specifically what interests you. From a vocational viewpoint, I can tell you that if you want a good job, major in engineering or something people actually pay for. No joke ? I have three degrees in history and education and I would be making better money flipping burgers. That aside, I?d need to know more to make serious recommendations. You?ll need a firm grounding in physical geography. You need to read and STUDY (I mean, get the real text AND the cliff?s notes for) certain classics in history, since all the modern authors keep referencing them, such as Homer, Herodotus, Livy, etc. Do not be over-awed by these revered and ancient famous writers, they have many flaws and are often wrong, but you DO need to know them - For example, I find SUN TZU to be an over rated hack and THE ART OF WAR to be fortune cookie bullsh*t. Get to know common labels and eras from multiple aspects ? cultural, musical, social, political, art, architecture, etc to the point where if someone makes any reference you?ll have at least a passing familiarity with where to look up more detail.
Get into historiography ? the history of history, so you can I.D. where authors ideas come from. Get to know the schools of historical and political thought. Do NOT fall in love with any one mode or ESPECIALLY any one author ? absolutely NOBODY is ever that correct. For example, a sure indicator of a close minded idiotic American history teacher is to discover they worship at the altar of Howard Zinn, who couldn?t suck more if he had Hoover stamped across his forehead. You?d have to be a deity to be AS right about EVERYTHING as the devotes of certain authors would have you believe they are. Learn to ?work a book?, meaning that you read and implement introductions. Double-check math and stats on graphs to see if they make any real sense. Look at bibliographies ? does the author show a wide ranging serious research, or have they just copy pasted a bunch of crap from Wikipedia and quote the same tired group of so-called scholars who all agree with each other? For example, if my thesis was that the political left was better than the right (or vice versa), and all my sources are talking heads from Fox News, than the odds are good my research is pretty slim, and my results faulty. See Michael Moore for THAT kind of BS, or Joseph Goebbels. Same guy, really.
Recognize that documentaries are made for the masses and that films are made for entertainment, so the odds that they are even partially historically reliable is pretty slim. Also, it?s far more important to understand themes and to synthesize ideas than it is to waste time on trivia. LEARN ECONOMICS!!!!! Emphasize logistics, and above all make sure you fully understand processes and semantic meanings. If you do, you will soon discover that most of the arguments you hear people advancing are fairly stupid, ignorant, and foolish. This is because they get lost on tangents or don?t understand how a process works. DO NOT ?keep it simple, stupid?. KISS is the kiss of death in history and geopolitics. This stuff is really complicated at its core, and the fact that people don?t learn underlying concepts or fully understand processes goes a long way to explaining why so much is so screwed up. At the same time, Occam?s razor is your best friend, and don?t buy into any conspiracy theories, they are almost always laughably wrong. Regionalisms and provincialisms ? blanket statements ? tend to be limited and wrong, but also very common. For example, you may have noticed many comments on many topics in these forums from Europeans whose actual understanding of America is horribly stilted and deeply wrong. Same goes for a lot of American comments on Europe. Treat history as a science as much as possible ? IE look at the evidence and then reach a conclusion, rather than approach it from a political viewpoint and then disregard anything that doesn?t support it. The fact that half the people are lefties and half on the right should in

rgratt4 (2008-07-12)

Im going to college next year, and completed the IB diploma program, which had a strong emphasis on historiography, and comparing the viewpoints of different authors.
Most of my reading has focused on the second world war such as: Iron Cross (biography of Rommel by David Fraser that is informative, but almost borders on hero worship), Omaha Beach (a more bottom up approach to the attack by Joseph Balkoski). Also, other biographies of Stalin, Winston Churchill, and many more narrative oriented books such as Nazi Germany and World War II by David Wall.
As far as the classics go, I've read Sun Tzu and excerpts from Clauswitz. I am more interested in what other people have to say about them, and how they are analyzed in a modern context. I thought that John Keegan did a great job putting them into context in his The History of War. I too think that Sun Tzu stated obvious facts, and that Clauswitz speaks from a very narrow perspective.
As far as economics goes, that is pretty much the only other subject that I actually spent time on outside of the classroom. I have read much more modern material than historical, but am very familiar with the works of Adam Smith, Karl Marx etc...
I listen to audiobooks while I work. Obviously, this is not as beneficial as reading the book itself, but it is certainly better than nothing. I say that I am interested in studying more modern military history, such as anything after WWI. However, I realize that I really have not read enough to know for sure, and am open to any and all suggestions.

 rambam1776 (2008-07-12)

Let me compile a list, but for the moment, you have got to read Victor Davis Hanson, especially CULTURE AND CARNAGE. Have you read Bruce Catton's Civil War?
Search for downloader in the meantime, he has a number of Historical downloads. You'll also want David Chandler - the master of Napoleonic warfare.

rgratt4 (2008-07-13)

I have actually read Bruce Catton's box set. Thanks for recommending Victor Davis Hanson, Culture and Carnage looks very interesting. I'm off the used bookstore to see if i can grab a copy right now. Ill look into David Chandler while there as well.

 rambam1776 (2008-07-21)

rgratt4 -
Hang tight a bit, I actually cc'd this conversation to a couple of history prof friends of mine, and we're arguing over the list in email right now. Make sure you read Shelby Foote's civil war stuff. Bernard Lewis might be the best english author of arabic studies. I love the dummies and idiot guides to topics - they are a great way to introduce eras, topics, wars, and disciplines you don't know and need, from the Vietnam war to the study of statistics. Hit a used college book store and look for old textbooks in specialty courses like history of: (immigration, this, that, whatever) those intro 101 level texts are great to make sure you are at least familar with a broad array.
Get a textbook from each major american subgroup, like wome's history, mexican history, irish history, black, jewish, everybody. Take a good look at basic sociology and anthropology. As far as modern civics go, you could do a lot worse than to watch all the west wing episodes, or to rent GIVE EM HELL HARRY from netflix.

 rambam1776 (2008-07-21)

J.F.C. Fuller, Military history of the western world.
B.H. Liddell-Hart, The Indirect Approach.
David Howarth, Waterloo, Day of Battle; and Trafalgar, the Nelson Touch.
Ervin Rommel, Infantry Attacks (Infanterie Angrief)
Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader and Achtung Panzer.
Erich Von Manstein, Lost Victories.
Samuel Elliott Morrisson US Naval Operations in WW II.
Saburo Sakai, Samurai.
Rene Grosset Empire of the Steps.
David Chandler, Campaigns of Napoleon.
Stephen Ambrose, Citizen Soldiers and Band of Brothers.
Patton, War as I knew it.
Eisenhower, Crusade in Europe.
For novels for a change of pace and which give the flavor accurately, anything by Steven Pressfield, Cecelia Holland, or the Shaaras father and son.

rgratt4 (2008-07-25)

thanks a lot rambam. I went to the used bookstore and purchased all of them I could find. I hope to read all of them soon

rgratt4 (2008-07-25)

--- I got cut off.
I have read only B.H. Liddell-Hart's book so far on this list, and look forward to delving into books written by Rommel, Manstien, and Eisenhower.
I have looked at a few books by Stephen Ambrose, and was recommended away from him. His book on D-day was interesting to contrast with other accounts, as I expect Chandler and Howarth's will be.
Thanks again for all your help

rigger111us (2009-04-17)

please seed it. i was downloading the torrent now iam stuck at 15%.

sinepgib (2010-03-29)

Aha, now I understand you. I have seen some comments you left around.

larouchepac (2010-04-08)

This is well worth watching. I would also add that the following torrent is another great movie to understand the dynamic of WWII.

 rambam1776 (2010-12-31)

Whatever the link in the last comment was to, it appears to be dead now.

R2d6.51 (2011-01-31)

As an educator and student of history I have found that focusing on 1st hand direct sources is at best, a view from afar of what happenned.
History is akin to looking through the prism of mental conceptions for those who have experiened what occurredas highly subjective, but possible to nail down very specific answers to questions that shed light on what really happenned with some clarity an relative certanity.
And why it is true that AV and still photographs coupled with eye witness tesimony can at least give you a better feel of what occurred.
A good example of what I am driving at; imagine if you are telling a story of an event that occurred 2 years ago and you interview 100 people who experiened the same event. ust as when a police officer investigating an automobile accident.
Even where you have 10 people standing at an intersection where the accident occurred the officer comes away with 10 different but sober versions of what they saw.
The 64k Dollar question is why is that?
Answering that question ust put you on the path of discovery of writing history that has a morsel of truth to it.
I also have tried to remember that all textbooks are political in nature.
Thus reading history is essentially for entertainment value.
Otherwise if your trying to get a flavor of what happenned, try and find a source where somebody was there, and then you at least get a chance to see it through the eyes of a person who experieneced it directly and write about that. But to write history i a way as if this is what occurred other than with obvious facts such as relating a day when a battle occurred and the weather was sunny the sun was either out or it wasn't. Fcats like that get into the minutia of history and why the previous author related the complication of writing history as evidenced by my own convoluted description but nevertheless valid when viewed with a non-ethnocentric perspective. LOL.

R2d6.51 (2011-01-31)

Here is a great book that describes the Normandy Invasion to the end in Germany 1945.
"The Struggle for Europe" by Wilmott, Chester
I have been reading this stuff for almost 50 years and have a number of great lists.
Hre is a short one on the War in the Pacific.
Too and the Coming of War by Butow, Robert .C.
Decision at Leyte, by Falk, Stanley, L.
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa, by Sledge, E.B.
Also one of my favorit German point of view authors on the Eastern Front who provides some pretty good detailed descriptios of battles with local maps are by Paul Carell with the following titles;
Hitler Turns East 1941-1943
Covers the invasion of the Soviet Union on une 21, 1941 up to 1943 and failure at Stalingrad
Scorched Earth: The Russian-German War 1943-1944
Covers post Stalingrad to the Battle for Berlin
Last but not least years ago when the Internet first came up the Cener for Military History has a website with a lot of maps and individual US Army and other service branch publications and resources. at
They have some super booklets with maps and photos of the war in North Africa especially where we got our butt kicked when we first encountered Rommel in Tunisia.My Father was a Naval Aviator in Operation Torch aboard the USS Suwanee, then stationed at Cactus Henderson Filed on Guadacanal in the Pacific and then headed up his own F2G Goodyear built Corsairs VBF-84 Squadron when Okinawa went down.